声明: V8南非獒与香港狗骗: ODY一起,攻击黑色南非獒

z5y7j-s

物以稀为贵，不过自然界经过了多少年的筛选淘汰，才进化出了普遍的南非呢？黑色的可能是基因和人工繁育的原因产生的。有的人喜欢有的人不喜欢，因人而异。

指日可待

大老虎，请不要把我们Ｖ８和ＯＤＹ扯在一起，我们Ｖ８和他连根毛的关系都没有。你和他的事自已处理。。。。

魂斗大罗

养好自己的狗，繁殖出好狗才是真理，干嘛把心思花在攻击别人身上，真让人无语

罗威黑煞

学习学习，喜欢大块头的狗。祝南非獒，国内的一个新犬种也是非常优秀的犬种，能够良性健康发展。{:5_127:}

司徒Bryan

一个美国的标准就闹得这么厉害，难怪中国和日本为了钓鱼岛天天掐，还是美国人厉害。AKC和FCI很多标准向左，没什么大不了的。特别是关于裁耳和断尾方面的。

king520chi

    ...........................   不要因为利益伤了和气,  把南非BOBO的优秀后代带到中国才是王道

55491407

果然有黑色南非 真的很漂亮

盛世瑞龙

楼主有点神经大条!装专家!介绍南非的时候说来说去那么几句!弱神经!动不动人家都针对你!看不惯!玩狗而已何必把自己搞得像圣斗士!

隔壁你王叔O_o

论坛水太深了

Q日力

各有各做各有所爱{:4_94:}

Q日力

顶大老虎顶大老虎

Q日力

大家想下确实是黑色南非獒在国内是就大老虎有的谁看到不眼红！！！

我爱KSL

本人不眼红，是条南非也要看品质的。现在是品质的天下，不是颜色的天下。包括人家借配也还是会选择好的公狗。其次再选择颜色的。品质一般就是彩虹色又能如何。说的话也许老虎不爱听，但是事实就是这样。明确品质才是真正的发展。希望老虎也能为了南非在国内的品质而引进高品质的南非

我爱KSL

说的再多，还不如做的多一点，哪怕是一点。各位是不是，不要让无数的吹牛皮话语让我们退化，变的没有进取心

iinu

给lz顶顶  挺好看的

指日可待

Q日力 发表于 2012-8-24 02:26
大家想下确实是黑色南非獒在国内是就大老虎有的谁看到不眼红！！！

那就让你了解下令你红了眼的黑色南非獒吧，这是一篇国外权威南非獒论坛的帖子
Someone may find it a bit too personal, but it’s my life, and my side of the story, that I’d like to share with you, my boerboel friends.
有的人可能觉得我接下来讲的太私人了，但这是我的生活，是我对故事的看法，我希望和你们-我的獒犬朋友们分享。
With all my respect to boerboel owners, and to people I personally know or met, I couldn’t help just passing by, and not to add some pieces to the black boerboels’ puzzle, which now sounds more like a wonderful illusion, that suddenly broke and fell apart in thousand of pieces that’s hard to collect and put back. I’ve been an official HBSA representative during 2003-2007, and since it ceased to be, I became a member of EBBASA and was appointed as its representative for Russia/CIS.
虽然我很尊敬獒犬的主人们，也很尊敬我所认识或见过的人，但我做不到只作为一名路过者，而不给黑色南非獒犬这幅拼图砌入一些板块。黑色的南非獒犬现在对我来说更像是一个精彩的幻象，一幅突然碎成千百块，无法再捡回无法再拼砌的拼图。我在2003~2007年间曾是HBSA的官方代表，这个机构停止后， 我成为了EBBASA 的成员，并被任命为该组织在俄罗斯/CIS 的代表。
   I am not a SA farmer, and to my deepest regret I was not growing up with boerboels either, as many of the south-aftican breeders do or might proclaim today, though sometimes it’s not.
我不是一个南非的农民， 我也很遗憾我没有像现在很多南非育种者那样，或者他们所宣称的那样（有时这些宣称也不是事实），从小就跟獒犬一起长大。

   I got involved with this amazing breed in 1998, when I got my first boerboel. Today it may sound awkward, but no information about boerboels could be found on the internet then, and I made every effort possible to learn more about this breed, and a year later I got acquainted with one of the breed’s 5 founders still alive at that time, Lucas van der Merwe (can’t be more thankful to John Penders, USA), and we spent uncounted hours on the phone talking boerboels since. We became very good and close friends. Lucas visited Russia 4 times, 3 of them as an Appraiser, and 1 as our special guest. In 2006 he advised me to invite Jakkie Erasmus as a Senior Judge for the HBSA Appraisal, and despite his lack of experience in judging, that started in 2001 according to official HBSA register, he did really well and it was rather strict and justified evaluation, as it always was with HBSA system, what made it differ from other Associations appraising.
我1998年有了第一条獒犬，从那时开始接触这种神奇的品种。现在听起来可能觉得很奇怪，但当时在网络上面并没有关于獒犬的信息。那时我想尽办法要多了解这个品种， 1年后我认识了那时还在世的5个獒犬创立者中的其中一人 Lucas van der Merwe. (这我要非常感谢美国的John Penders)。 自那以后，我跟Lucas有了无数个小时的电话通话，在电话上讨论獒犬。我们成了很好很亲密的朋友。 Lucas 去过俄罗斯4次， 3次去做评估者，1次作为我们的特别嘉宾。2006年他建议我邀请Jakkie Erasmus作为HBSA 评估活动的高级评判。根据HBSA 的官方记录，评判2011年就已开始。尽管Jakkie Erasmus那时在当评判方面没什么经验，但他的评判工作做的很好，评选严格公证，符合HBSA系统的传统，这也是HBSA 系统与其他评判机构的不同之处。

  

指日可待

Our special guest of the event then was Claudia Mauritz of Grootgeluk Boerboele (Netherlands), and one can imagine how hot discussions and argueings we had (5 of us!) over that time!! We talked a lot and shared our opinions on different features, traits, and other peculiarities of the boerboels of the past and existing, and Jakkie mentioned that he had a black male back at his farm that he got recently, not registered, but he was hoping to use him for breeding out black dogs at a later stage.
那时我们的特别嘉宾是荷兰Grootgeluk Boerboele组织的Claudia Mauritz，你们可以想象当时我们5个人在一起的讨论争论是多么的激烈！！我们谈了很多，分享了我们对于獒犬过去至当时不同特点。 Jakkie 当时提到他不久前刚刚得到了一个黑色的公獒犬，獒犬没有注册，但他希望能在后续的阶段把那公獒犬作为种公培育黑色南非獒犬。
   Lucas being a polite and gentle man, remarked that it should be a cross though, as there was never a solid black boerboels known, but only “ultras” (i.e. ultra-brindle) boerboels that would rarely appear in the litters, and some of the breeders (such as Jannie Roodt and Peter Milstein) would even thourough select them in order to get them born. And those of “black dogs” that he ever saw were mutts and didn’t look like boerboels, and carried obvious signs of unknown breeds.
Lucas 很有礼貌很温和地说那獒犬应该是个杂交的，因为人们从来没发现过真真正正的黑色南非獒犬， Jakkie的那条犬应该只是个ultras （即ultra-brindle）。 这种ultra獒犬在幼崽中很少见，有的育种者（比如Jannie Roodt 和 Peter Milstein) 甚至要全面仔细的筛选，使这些幼崽能顺利出生。Lucas说他见过的“黑狗”只是一些杂交的狗，样子并不像獒犬，而且身上也有一些其他品种的明显标志。
   In 2007, I came to South Africa and stayed with the Erasmus family for some time, and I’m still very thankful for their hospitality and nice time spent at their place. There I was presented the 3 black pups out of the 1st litter sired by Jack, the black male that was also shown to me later, as he had been kept remotedly from the house, at some other place, quite on a distance from the main farm, and it was dark by the time we got there. Unfortunately I could not see him properly through the fence, although I did make a couple of pics in darkness. I shall admit that I was totally charmed by the pups, and by the whole idea of black boerboel’s revival, it stirred my mind as a kitchen blender. And I can fully understand all the feelings of today owners of these black dogs.
2007年我来到南非并在Erasmus家待了一段时间， 我现在仍然很感谢他们的好客和在他们家的那段时间。在那我看到了Jack 的第一代幼崽中的3个黑色小狗，过了一些时候又看到了那个黑色的公狗（公狗被安置在离房子和主农场很远的其他地方,我们到那的时候天已经黑了）。很不幸透过隔离网我不能清晰地看到它，虽然我也在黑暗中照了几张照片。我得承认那些幼崽和复兴黑色南非獒犬的想法让我很欣喜，这个想法就像个搅拌机一样搅动着我的思绪。因此我也可以完全体会现在的这些黑色的狗主人们的感受。

指日可待

   After visiting Eastern Cape, I travelled to Free State, and stayed at Mizpah Farm with Lucas, and we discussed black boerboels as well. As I had been very excited by them, the old man soothed me down, by saying that he regretted to allow them to be registered with HBSA, as “there was never black solid color boerboels that he knew of, and the only black dogs, that he ever saw and raised with at his grandfather’s farm, were those of an ultra-brindle color, very dark in appearance, with hardly noticeable stripes in them”. He also felt very pity, that boerboel started to loose its original looks and traits, and was getting more and more commercial interest from breeders, and that it was not that him and other founders wanted for the breed. As a matter of fact, he took me to his good friend and neighbour, Walter Holder (Slamat Boerboele), that’s about 5 km away from Mizpah, where Walter showed me an adult black male, (Great Dane x Boerboel cross), that they kept just for guarding (I have a picture of him too). I think that at that time if there was a need in reviving the black boerboel – it was a good chance for both of them to do it (e.g. Donkerhoek Kaapult’s background is no secter). But that idea could not even hit old men minds, as they knew the truth about the non-existence of the black boerboels, and they strived for pure-bred boerboels over the past 30+ years… When I asked him, why not to use him, Lucas just laughed and said that they can’t do that, it’s not right.
去完东开普省后，我去了自由州并和LUCAS 一起待在Mizpah农场，我们讨论了黑色南非獒犬的事。我对黑色南非獒犬的事非常激动，lucas 说他很遗憾把黑色南非獒犬在HBSA 上面注册了，因为“他从来没有知道过有真真正正纯黑的獒犬， 他唯一在他爷爷农场上所看到的那些黑狗也只是有ultra-brindle 颜色，外观上非常黑，基本上看不到条纹的狗。”老人家这话让我平静了下来。他也很遗憾獒犬已经开始失去它原来的样子和特性，对它们的主人来说，它们的商业利益成分越来越多。这些都不是他及其他创立者所愿意看到的。事实上，他带我去了他一个好朋友兼邻居Walter Holder (Slamat Boerboele) 的家。 那距离Mizpah5公里左右。 Walter 让我看了一条成年的黑色公狗（它是大丹犬 和 南非獒犬杂交的后代）。他们把这条狗做看门之用。（我也照了一张照片）我想，那时假如他们需要复兴黑色南非獒犬的话，那就是一个很好的机会了。但是这两位老人连一丁点这样的想法都没有，因为他们知道黑色南非獒犬根本不存在。过去30多年他们一直致力于培育纯种的南非獒犬。我问LUCAS 为什么不利用这条狗，他只是笑了笑， 说他们不能那样做，那样是不对的。
   During my stay at Mizpah, it turned out that Jenny Wells (Quovadis Boerboels) also visited Lucas, and we continued discussing with him everything back and forth, again and again, over and over, and those of you, who knows Jenny, it’s hard to believe that she would miss the point, or wouldn’t get the chance to get to the very essense of the issue, dropping some important threads of the story somewhere down the road.
我在MIZPAH 逗留的那段时间里，Jenny Wells (Quovadis Boerboels) 也拜访了LUCAS。我们一起和lucas 来来回回反反复复地谈论了每一件事。 你们之中认识JENNY 的人可能会觉得以下难以置信：她竟然没有追问事情的重点，或者说没有抓住机会深入到整个事情的本质，只落下一些重要的线索。


   Many interesting boerboel facts and stories were revealed to us, and many of our questions have been answered. That was back then…
我们听到了很多关于獒犬的事实和故事，我们的很多问题也得到了回答，这是那时的情形。
   In 2009 Jakkie in his letter to me admitted, that on the short “black BB search” tour that he, his wife Elma and Jan le Doux (Egoli Boerboels) undertook, they visited many farms, and that the black dogs that they saw “was really a lot of sh**…” And the black ones that they had at that time out of Jack and his offsprings, were of the best quality ever known, and therefore I was offered to take part in a big commercial project involving black boerboel development throughout the world, that started to roll on with big success. I still was anxious and thrilled by the “magically survived” color, and again, I called Lucas van der Merwe, as I wanted to hear his opinion one more time regarding this color, hoping that I would hear something different, but nope, he made it straight, saying that he, with J, de Jager and later with P. Milstein arranged several trips years ago in the search of the black boerboels, and they could not find any on them, even in the remoted areas near Lesotho, except of some obvious crosses, that didn’t even reminded them of boerboels. After that conversation, I got a firm decision to leave it once and for all there where it was. Where’s a wheel, there’s a way. Lucas didn’t believe in its existence, and did not believe in “any black dog that barks being a boerboel”. I greatly respect the knowledge and experience of the man, who devoted his whole life to boerboels, and there was no one who could know this breed any better, and how and where it started.
2009年在JAKKIE 给我的信中他承认道，在他、他妻子elma 和Jan le Doux (Egoli Boerboels) 的简短的黑色南非獒犬搜寻之旅中，他们去了很多农场，他们所见到的黑狗确实很差劲。 他们那时从JACK 和JACK 的后代那里培育的黑狗是人们所知道的最好的了。于是我被邀请参加一个世界范围内的大型黑色南非獒犬发展商业计划，这个计划开始发展得很成功。我那时为这种“奇迹生还”的颜色感到很振奋，因此我再一次打电话给Lucas van der Merwe，因为我希望再听听他对于这个颜色的看法，希望这次可以听到他跟以前不同的观点。然而他直截了当地说他和J, de Jager 及之后的 P. Milstein多年前曾经好几次外出寻找黑色南非獒犬，甚至连接近Lesotho的一些偏远地方也去过，但是除了一些明显混种狗之外，他们一个黑色南非獒犬都没看到。那些混种狗也一点都不能让他们联想到黑色南非獒犬。经过那次通话之后，我坚决地决定就到那为止了。Lucas 不相信黑色南非獒犬的存在，也不相信有任何会叫的黑色狗是南非獒犬。我很尊敬他在这方面的知识和经验，他把他一生都献给了南非獒犬，也再没有人比他更懂得这个品种，更知道这个品种是怎样和在哪里发源的。





   I am not here to make any judgements, or accuse anyone, people choose their own ways to go, it’s just my little story, but I remember very well what Om Lucas had been saying to me many times, as well as all my conversations years ago with Anneke, his ex-wife, (who was on the Great Boerboel Tour with him), and especially over our last conversation with Lucas, 3 days prior his death, when he already had breathing difficulties, but was in absolutely clear mind- just for the sake of the breed, there’s no need to bring something new to it, as it is AS beautiful AS it is, even if multiplying the black color is profitable and attractive to many people around the world. There are other good dog-breeds that have black color in their standards and genes. There is also no need to overthrow the saying: “The leopard cannot change his spots”. Why should boerboels do?
我不是想在这做任何评论，也不是要指责任何人，不同的人选择不同的方式，这只是我的一个小故事。但我清楚地记得Lucas 在多次的交谈中和我所说的，也记得我多年前和Anneke及他的前妻（她伴随Anneke一起做过一个獒犬之旅）的谈话，我特别记得我和Lucas的最后一次对话，也就是在他去世前的第三天。那时他已经出现呼吸困难，但头脑仍然很清醒—就是为了獒犬这个品种本身，没有必要再给这品种寻找新的东西，因为它现在已经很好很漂亮了，即使繁殖黑色可以赚钱，即使世界上很多人喜欢这颜色，但都没有必要。世上还有其他好的品种的狗，无论在标准上还是基因里，都已经具有黑色。人们没有必要去推翻“一个豹是不能改变它的斑纹的”的说法，所以为什么就要改变的獒犬颜色？
With all my good and loving memory of Lucas van der Merwe, the true Boerboel Man of South Africa.
在这献上我对Lucas van der Merwe， 这个真正的南非獒犬人的怀念。

P.S. When I hear the story that there’re dogs of unknown origin in Muller Lady and Poppie’s certs due to the fact that J. Muller never registered his dogs and wasn’t involved with any of the Associations, it contracdicts the HBSA Registry of dogs. According to it, he’s been a member of HBSA since 2001, and registered his other dogs with it without any problem. So what was the true need to a sudden registering these 2 dogs in 2003 then (in fact there were 3 dogs registered on the same day, but I presume one of them just vanished), and the parents were not? Did this happen just because of the interest coming from some breeders that started their kennels as early as in 2001-2003?

另外：我听到有个一故事说因为J. Muller没有为他的狗注册，也没有加入任何一个协会，所以在 Muller Lady and Poppie 的证书上， 有一些狗的来源不明，但这说法和HBSA的狗只注册记录不一致。根据记录，自从2001开始，他就成为了HBSA 的成员，也成功地为他的其他狗只完成注册。所以为什么要突然在2003年注册这2条狗，而又不给这两条狗的父母注册？（事实上同一天注册的共有3条狗，我想另外1条就凭空消失了）这事情是不是仅因为有一些在2001年~2003年间成立狗舍的育种者为了利益而促成的呢？

三和犬舍

Walter 让我看了一条成年的黑色公狗（它是大丹犬 和 南非獒犬杂交的后代）。他们把这条狗做看门之用。（我也照了一张照片）我想，那时假如他们需要复兴黑色南非獒犬的话，那就是一个很好的机会了。但是这两位老人连一丁点这样的想法都没有，因为他们知道黑色南非獒犬根本不存在。过去30多年他们一直致力于培育纯种的南非獒犬。我问LUCAS 为什么不利用这条狗，他只是笑了笑， 说他们不能那样做，那样是不对的。

黑豹111007

路过，看热闹！